**Hey guys/gals. The following are my ideas about a business I may start within this hobby, and if you feel like taking the time to read this and share some thoughts, I'd be honoured. I wrote a bunch, so if you don't want to, I fully understand. This is not a hot rod shop, service, or car sales yard business**
I have done the preliminary work on creating a buy/sell web site that caters strictly to vintage car parts and car sales, but before I pull the trigger and have this web application designed and created (at a cost of about $10k, maybe a bit less, and that wouldn't include marketing, etc to come after the launch) I was wondering if you think this is feasible and could even be profitable sometime in the future. This wold not be a 'forum' or an 'app' that you download, but a website which functions like the competitors, but hopefully in a better way and of course directed and designed specifically for what we like: Vintage Car stuff.
I am new to entrepreneurship, not well versed in web marketing/sales, and don't have any financial backing whatsoever, but I do have enough of my own money to get this off the ground. As you may have seen from past car builds, I am pretty dedicated to the hobby, overall, and mainly in buying and selling parts online for my builds while a friend of mine does the grunt work on my car of the moment, so to speak. I'm slowly learning mechanics and metalwork...
The rationale is that I spend lots of time scouring the web, specifically kijji, for car parts and cars and due to that, my girlfriend came up with this idea to be a way I could maybe make some money on the hobby I love, and enjoy the process at the same time. I feel that Kiijij, Ebay, ...Varagesale even...have limitations and may or may not have some quality features that I wish to combine/adapt/drop to a whole new site that would make the buy/sell of parts, cars, memorabilia easier and more enjoyable for folks in our hobby. For example, I would have categories that are more attuned to our hobby (click 'pre-war' click 'ford' click 'suspension' and find exactly those sorts of parts, or the exact place where best to post your part to be sold. The sign up would be quick and easy, the interface easy to navigate and the goods would be exactly what we hope to find. No links to ebay ads, no brand new parts for 2017 minivan....just vintage car people selling to car people.
I would have a better account system and messaging system, similar to varagesale or forums like this one, to bring more community feel to the game and more accountability to tire-kickers, without being overly personal at all. User ratings would be a feature that will help that accountability and raise the level of trust not found in Kijiji.
The site would be monetized through advertising, mainly, but also by building a 'brand' that is cool and helpful for the hobby. Thus, I could have merchandise or hold events (swap meets and shows....which I am hoping to get into planning anyways) and maybe in the future I could charge for certain features on the site, as it grows, as long as it doesn't take away from the user experience in any way.
I'm thinking I would design the site at first to be for the Ontario market specifically. Hopefully a few businesses would want to advertise on it, even for free at first, and if it gets popular enough, I could add features that would help open up the site to the USA and beyond.
So, If you are still with me here, what are your thoughts?
Thanks for any advice, ideas, warnings, etc. - I always value the opinions of others in our hobby and I surely have tons to learn about cars and business.
It strikes me that one of the biggest issues with any type of web site like the one you are proposing is how do you eliminate or minimize fraud. There is a reason why many police stations have a Kiijij buying/selling parking place. If the fraudsters take over the site it will be you that takes the hit.
I am becoming more and more skeptical of electronic trading and would hate to see you lose your enthusiasm or investment. Hope I am not being a downer because it is good to see people trying to create things.
I don't mean to sound pessimistic - but I highly doubt there's anywhere close to enough of a market/traffic to attract enough advertising in ontario to generate any sort of meaningful revenue.
Pay to post for additional features or ad promotion? There's currently 4300 posts in the Ontario Classic Cars seciton with only 2 paid posts. That's pretty low % of users willing to pay. Have you taken any estimates on the size of your ontario posting market? If you're competing against kijiji - there's right now 4300 ads in the classic car section. Many of those posts are several weeks or months old, also many are duplicates. Let's assume 2500 active individual posters in the classic car section of kijiji. How many of those 2500 do you think you could convert to using your service? Regarding t-shirts and swag - everyone and their friends is selling t-shirts and swag - Why would someone want to wear t-shirts from an online classified service? How much traffic are you estimating you'll be able to offer to your advertizers?
I'm not trying to talk you out of it or be pessimistic - just asking some devil's advocate kinda of questions I was wondering if you asked yourself before you dump 10k + (most likely very much in the + once you get started. Web will just be like dropping your car off at custom/performance shop - if the budget is 10k be ready with 20k).
It strikes me that one of the biggest issues with any type of web site like the one you are proposing is how do you eliminate or minimize fraud. There is a reason why many police stations have a Kiijij buying/selling parking place. If the fraudsters take over the site it will be you that takes the hit.
I am becoming more and more skeptical of electronic trading and would hate to see you lose your enthusiasm or investment. Hope I am not being a downer because it is good to see people trying to create things.
Good luck.
Hmm Fraud - an area I haven't explored much, so thanks for bringing that up - How do you see fraud affecting me? Do you mean hackers stealing profile information? I won't have any sort of payment systems, so I don't see financial fraud? Maybe you mean theft when someone uses the site to find something they want to steal?
-- Edited by gribbs on Thursday 9th of March 2017 04:38:34 PM
Great points and I am taking nothing personal or negative in nature....I need the help.
I will admit, I've not done a good job of accurately pinning down a market, though I feel that if we assume that 2500 people are actively posting classic cars/parts on kijji at any given moment, then there is no doubt a market exists. I'm not looking for those people to pay me, I want this free for users, though I think it is fair to ask a small fee for businesses to pay, but it would be small and not for at least year, I'm guessing.
Part of the reason I haven't focused (maybe enough) on market is because for 2 years I stewed about opening a Maker Space in Durham region (if anyone reading this doesn't know what they are, you surely will soon), but I constantly believed there wouldn't be a market (yet and I thought I shouldn't be the one to inform the possible market). When I got laid off in December, I poured a month of everyday energy into business planning, only to find out another guy was about to launch one and he had everything in place because he never worried about market (he has already turned down donated spaces at DC/UOIT and has an army of volunteers ready to begin). He was over a year ahead of me, and had all ducks in a row already. I couldn't compete and his scale would have crushed my smaller, less equipped shop, probably.
Ideally, this website goes way beyond Ontario, if I want to make money off of it. If it just becomes a hobby A) that's a lot to spend, so why bother?? or B) I'd like to keep it strictly to Ontario and just for US. The beauty of online anything is the global nature of it, and adding more location parameters to the site wouldn't be a huge deal. I'd have tutorials on shipping overseas, etc. to make buying and selling international easier. I'm a teacher and have a knack for making instructional materials that explain things well.
I'm on all the websites, forums, and I still buy car magazines monthly, and I know there is nothing in the US like what I hope to achieve, so size of the market would hopefully grow as the awareness of the site grows. My competition will always be craigslist, etc. but hoping to draw folks to my site not even for what it is, but for the headaches of kijjiji etc that they can avoid.
I agree branding is....whatever it is......but it also works and a reason why everything is a brand these days. I'd have a cool logo and charge less than $25 like everyone else does. The merchandise is a moving billboard and I have friends all over Canada and the US who I can send stuff too for free, just because. Still money well spent to grow the brand.
Thanks again guys - you can clearly see I need all the help I can get here .haha
Sounds like a good idea but I personally think the Vintage car and part guys who would be interested are getting up in age and not doing as much building, etc but then on the other hand they have lots of items to sell. I think the supply will out grow the demand where as the later cars and tuners is the opposite. Not what I want to see but think that is the reality of it..
Good Luck with your decision
Seems to be more (used) car parts on " Kijiji Classic Cars ", right now, than there are classic cars. There is a shop in Windsor ( Muscle Cars & Classics ) that I have been dealing with for odds and ends for my '62 Biscayne. They have a pretty good site, set up so it is easy to navigate, they take your order, and then they order from many different suppliers Stateside,..their list prices ( Canadian $$ ) are very reasonable, and before taxes of course,...but I like the fact that there is no brokerage fees etc., and I believe that the most I have ever paid for shipping from Windsor to my area ( 134 miles ) was $11.00, and that was for a huge, and fairly heavy box full of Factory molded carpet,..via Fed-Ex,..but you have a choice of whatever shipping method you desire. If you haven't already,..check out their site,...they have it set up pretty nice,..and it may give you some ideas on putting your own site together.
Hi Gribbs
I have been self employed for 15 years now. Learned lots. I had lots of people tell me I was nuts, even my wife was not sure what to make of it. But, I did end up talking to a couple of people that are self employed and who I trusted as well. Both told me stories of absolute disaster and great success. They all worried about the same things I did, will I have enough work to feed my family, will it work out, will I be successful. One guy who was in business for 20+ years in the asphalt industry says every spring he still worries about having enough work to get the guys and trucks paid for. But in the end they said go for it, what have you got to lose. So I did. After all how much could I lose. Worst case I would have to work for someone else again. Took a business course and one of the first things the main leader said was "after one year of business, you don't enjoy it, shut down the business and go one to something else. That to is success in that you found something you don't want to do". So I am now into my 16th year of a one year plan. Things have been bad, complete disaster, etc., but there have been many great times as well. The biggest business thing I learn, there are 3 parts to owning a business, doing the work (for me that is building, renovating, carpentry, etc.), managing the business (who to hire, fire, advertising, anything that is not, but could be revenue generating) and accounting (paying bills, payroll, etc.). Any self employed person is great at one of these, sometimes good a second one but no one is good at all three, so find someone who is good where you are weak and work with them. For me accounting is out of the question. There is so much more I could tell you but want to leave it here to give you food for thought. Let me know if you want more info or advise or whatever. Here to help and this is a world that I am comfortable in.
Was self employed for 42 years...just took a job, that I love btw, for the 1st time in a lot of years! I did the self employed thing and of course worried myself crazy over it before I started, but never looked back! Don't be the guy who says later in life, "I wish I had went ahead done it" Be the guy who said "Man, I'm glad I did that!"
My wife of 33 years ran an online web based business called PenelopesPearls.com; no longer in operation now. The Biggest challenge for her was to keep her web site on the 1st page , at the top , or in the top 3 that the search engines will bring up. Any duplication of content would place her 'site' on the 4th or further page from the start, and how many people go through 55,000 pages when shopping? They do the 1st and maybe go as far as the 3rd. This required CONSTANT web site maintainence on all listing of items for sale. Then there is the web site "hosting service" to deal with. Like Marten said; one person cannot do it all. Sounds like a good idea. With the average Rodder near or past retirement age, including parts horders , it would be an outlet for liquidation.
Junior
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Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is sort of an advance auction sale of stolen goods. HL Mencken. 1919.
"If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever." George Orwell 1984
Thanks guys! Awesome ideas here, through and through. To be clear, what I'm proposing is not a store at all, just a site where people post parts and cars they are buying or selling to others.
I do see there being a flood of cars and parts on the market in the future. The babyboomers are just getting up in age now (meaning the front end of them is nearing 75, but the back end is only in their early 50's) so there should be at least a decade of no real change in the amount of cars and parts and their $ value. After that though, I feel that as long as gasoline is relatively affordable and governments haven't regulated the hobby to death or near death, then even if the values of parts and cars declined by 50% let's say, it would just make this hobby even more affordable for new people to join and others to remain in it. I somewhat agree that older guys are doing less building now, although a friend of mine who is 70 is going hard and fast on his 36 ford pickup build, and he still works on customer cars to make money as well. I would suspect that isn't the norm for guys his age, though.
I think I am going to go ahead and get this site started. In 5 years, who knows, maybe it is a big thing and people enjoy posting on it and searching it for parts to buy. I can afford to lose the $10k in a year or two if this totally sank. At least I would know I tried and I can chalk it up as a risky investment gone bad. Hell, if I sold my Apache tomorrow, I'd lose a lot more than $10k on it, so at least this could have an $$ upside, unlike the truck build does.
Thanks for your thoughts and encouragements. Means a lot!
Ya, I'm definitely operating on the premise that no one getting out of the hobby with stuff they would like to sell, is looking forward to posting it all on kijiji and dealing with the buyers that brings through that site. If my site has serious buyers, it should make the selling process much less stressful.
I do see hurdles with online issues like Junior has pointed out, but I'm guessing they would be less and easier to have fixed than brick and mortar issues, or supply chain issues, or employee issues, etc. etc.
I often purchase items on kijiji, used to do eBay but pain in the ass.
I find 90% of sellers on kijiji accept e transfer and ship now so I'm not paying extra like if i use ebay.
So big question is, what would make what you want to do different from dealing with kijiji, craigslist, letgo ect?
I agree it would be great if you could have a much better vetting process then current options.
Think about everything that sucks about our current options and start there.
So rating sellers and buyers would be good but i agree there might not be the market for just classic car parts so why limit it to just that?
There is a group on facebook 705 trucks. huge. members list parts , engines and rims & tires like crazy.
always asking other members about best place to get body work or paint, lighr bars ect.
So might be a market if you open your scope larger.
Why don't you start a Facebook page/ bus first?
completly free.
you would be crazy not to have one eventually anyway in this day and age.
nothing stopping you from using it as your starting platform.
see how it goes as you build it you can see what works and what doesn't
I've been in bus for years.
still don't have or pay for a web sight. Just a facebook page.
what others have said it true. You have to be posting keywords everyday to stay relevent/ show in a google search.
youll spend a lot of time/ resources and money just doing that.
Try just starting with an " In search of only " sight.
then you search options to find what peaple are looking for! charge a finders fee to person if they buy only. Then you can eventually charge fee to seller.
But I would start by using facebook and let Mark Zuckerberg " pay" to get you started.
Thanks Janice for your thoughts. That 705 page you mention would be my competition, somewhat, and I can learn from it too. Thanks!
If you are familiar with VarageSale, it makes it easier to picture what I want to make. Of course mine is strictly for classic car stuff. What would make mine different than what Janice describes is that it would be an application/website, so users wouldn't have to be on Facebook or any other social media at all to use it (my facebook friends into cool stuff are leaving facebook in droves anyways for Instagram), and it would have parts/cars/memorabilia that is very easy to search out or post for sale. Ultimately, if it really takes off, it can be bought out, and it houses data that companies pay to get their hands on. When it is built from the ground up by a web company, it has value as an application, I mean.
VarageSale for example has no advertising on the site and no charge to users, yet it has millions in investment cash (just got $34 million from one firm) and about 100 employees. I'm still trying to figure out how that company would make money on that investment in the site.
I think it would be advantages to have a single site, where people around the world (at first just us in Ontario) can post their parts, that is easy to use, not for businesses to use (like ebay has become) except for their advertising banners. A friend of mine sold a big, heavy drop axle to a guy in Sweden and that guy found my friend because of Ontario kijiji !! Amazing.
You are right, I would have Facebook and other social media pages and/or a blog and that will be a lot of work to keep the site active with Google searches, etc. but if this becomes my 'job' then that is fine.
Right now I am laid off and working part time, so I am waiting until I get a full time job, then I can have this made for me and chip away at it. Unless I scrap the idea by then. Time will tell.
I didn't read everything you posted but I think you want to have a website that caters to antique car/hotrod ads. As long as it isn't full of people advertising their late model hockey mom van for sale but saying or trade for hotrod so they can slip their ad in. Here is my experience with ads on kijiji. First I have to say it annoys the hell out of me when there is ads for other junk in the classic car section. I recently posted 4 wanted ads for a part for a mid '60's car as of today this is how they did, and again this is a wanted ad.
parts section London ---------------6 visits
antique car section London------ 691 visits
parts section Toronto----------------4 visits
antique car section Toronto-------260 visits
Parts section is useless. Parts section is ideal if you want some worn out winter tires! There is definitely a need for what you are proposing. All just my opinion but you should read again what Janice posted. TMJ
I sell on ebay or other hot rod sites with serious buyers and sellers.Kijiji is a joke and loaded with morons .Was trying to buy an engine for 6 weeks and finally told the guy to f off.
Engine wasn't at home and at a friends place and could not seem to find common time to pick up.Seen motor once and agreed to by it but no hoist there ??
Anything you try to sell is more morons thinking your having a fire sale or think if the ad is up long enough you will give it away.
I do not do face book or any other social media for that matter.
Most of my friends don't either , so you lost me there .I do tons of markets buying all summer and sell at the airport Dec market and always do quite well .
Good luck In trying to start a much needed outlet , but still you will likely have to put up with the pickers trying to.buy everything for nothing
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It' a good thing we dont get as much goverment as we pay for !!!
Both of you guys are my target market and I'm sure that if the site had enough users and enough parts, it would serve you well. Problem right now is the cost. I'm in one of those classic situations where I have the time, but not necessarily the confidence to spend the money. Hopefully when I work full time and hen have less time, at least I will have the funds sorted out. Seeing your frustration and sharing in it with my own buy and sell of my own parts, I can see there is a better way to do things. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me to help along in the process.
Because there are a million forums with buy and sell. This is a dedicated site and application that would consolidate parts into categories, whereas forums are usually specific to a brand or style and it's not simple to join a camaro forum just to sell some camaro parts a friend gave you one day, for example. And making a unique and useful website/app has value that can be sold down the road. IE you may be noticing the eBay ads that are popping up on kijjiji - eBay bought out kijjiji.
Good luck In trying to start a much needed outlet , but still you will likely have to put up with the pickers trying to.buy everything for nothing
User ratings should really help with that. Anything like that should be able to be worked around in the interface of the site. Airbnb is well known for the way it asks for reviews and things of that nature, since their whole premise revolves of around the trust of having people let others stay in their home.
Gribbs, I would set things up now while you have more time. I get the money thing but its hard to have both time and money line up. Risk is there now and when working full time.
Gribbs, I would set things up now while you have more time. I get the money thing but its hard to have both time and money line up. Risk is there now and when working full time.
Ya, I'm thinking the same thing, but feels like a deeper plunge when I don't have much cash coming in at the moment from work. I've told the developer that I am holding off for now, so whenever I decide to have them start building the site, he is just a call away. I'll think on your point some more now.
-- Edited by gribbs on Thursday 16th of March 2017 01:11:56 PM
Both of you guys are my target market and I'm sure that if the site had enough users and enough parts, it would serve you well. Problem right now is the cost. I'm in one of those classic situations where I have the time, but not necessarily the confidence to spend the money. Hopefully when I work full time and hen have less time, at least I will have the funds sorted out. Seeing your frustration and sharing in it with my own buy and sell of my own parts, I can see there is a better way to do things. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me to help along in the process.
You need to broaden your idea of your " target market"
no disrespect but those 2 are not your market. Even you said all the " cool ppl are leaving Facebook for instagram.
Joe or many of these old school guys ( again , no disrespect intended. You know I love you guys😁. Especially Joe. You know I want you to adopt me so Nick doesn't get all the good stuff 😂) dont "do " Facebook, instagram, ect which in my experience are
huge for on line sales. The days of a brick and mortar store are becoming a thing of the past.
you say you have time now and no $. So take this time to research your market and figure out a business model.
you will have a tough time " branding" your business as your not selling anything right now. You'll have to figure that out.
You will be providing an already hugely flooded market with free on line place to buy and sell something.
The number of people not using Facebook, kijiji, Craigslis, instagram ect is very small.
And getting smaller everyday. Christ even my 96 yr old grandmother now has Facebook and Instagram account.
Think bigger, broaden your market.
New on line or social media avenues are continuing to evolve and add selling/ networking opportunitie.
Businesses need to evolve with it or die.
Start with Facebook page, instagram. figure out how you can post some clever ads on kijiji and any other option that is free.
The only thing you'll be out is your time..... which you have now.
But be ready
you'll spend a lot of hours trying to post something that gets attention. Stay on top of google search. And just managing all the different ways people shop now!
Eg.
my clients can
call me
text me
email me
facetime me
send message on Facebook
instagram
kijiji messages
and usually all at the same time all hours of the day and night.
Theres no more 9-5 mon - fri. 😑
And anytime you have to pay someone to build a webpage or sight, your beat before you even start.
if you can't do it yourself and know everything about it and how it works, you better start with learning that stuff first.
lots of great avenue's available for you to do that as well.
I'm sure not saying you can't do it.
if there's a need, you really love it or are hungry for it you'll make it happen.
I started years ago by posting free ads on kijiji to sell my furniture, word of mouth propelled me and eventually put a Facebook page together and boom. If there is a market for it and you get your service out to market, you'll find out pretty quick.
No money out and no overhead or wages to start..... your laughing.👍
-- Edited by Janies dirty 37 on Friday 17th of March 2017 02:59:45 AM
If there was a way to post the four page PDF that was made by the web developer describing how the site will work, I think I could show you how and why my site cannot be made by myself or for free. This will take about 6-8 weeks to build by a professional. Varagesale has 100 employees for a reason. For thinking bigger, I already mentioned global users. And I mentioned how I would have a secondary blog for an online presence with social media, though the site itself is individual so the market that doesn't use social media can still be catered to.
My market is anyone with a classic car or part that wants to sell it by posting it somewhere online. I really think it is as simple as that.
Much respect to everyone's ideas, but anyone thinking I can do this with a Facebook page or a forum is missing the boat. My first quote was for $20k to design what I want, and people routinely spend $100k to have apps developed - not so simple as making a Facebook page and being all set. Is air bnb a dedicated app and site? Dollar shave club? Varagesale? And countless others... yes yes yes.
I say go for it nothing ventured nothing gained I often look back on the missed Line-X franchise 30 yrs ago and how successful Jenkin boys have made their business , My concerns then the same as everyone else's - not earning the daily bread . My one true regret in life - woulda coulda shoulda carries no solice later in the game , get yourself educated and informed , learn from your mistakes of which there will be plenty and move forward Gribbs . Good luck with your endevour .
Larry (Grumpy 50 )
I say go for it nothing ventured nothing gained I often look back on the missed Line-X franchise 30 yrs ago and how successful Jenkin boys have made their business , My concerns then the same as everyone else's - not earning the daily bread . My one true regret in life - woulda coulda shoulda carries no solice later in the game , get yourself educated and informed , learn from your mistakes of which there will be plenty and move forward Gribbs . Good luck with your endevour . Larry (Grumpy 50 )
Thanks Larry for that. I have learned a lot in a short time, so I'll continue that and then hopefully get this going. My folks have a similar story to your Line-X one....on a game called Trivial Pursuit - you may have heard of it haha. As Michael Jordan said, "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take."
