Our local tabloid is Full of this. The MPAC meeting was filled to capacity,no standing room. A friend of mine is battling these idiots for reassessment. They don't view your land,they go by previous sales in the area. One side of the road, as in South Dorchester is 3K higher than the other side.
Based on the price the property sold for adjacent to a "Feed lot' down the road.
Junior
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Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is sort of an advance auction sale of stolen goods. HL Mencken. 1919.
"If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever." George Orwell 1984
2018 cannot come soon enough. This government needs to go and we in the rural areas need assurance that our issues will be discussed. Wynne needs to take sedatives anytime she goes north of Highway 7. Dirty uneducated deplorable people up there. Maybe we should seriously consider breaking away from Toronto. We are not represented.
I could not agree more.. I think a lot of people are just waiting and biding their time.. For ME though the problem we have is Three governments and as long as we have that we as voters will never get a good government We always have to split the vote 3 ways .. so we end end with house full of a$$holes..like the Donald Says.. It's a rigged system folks.. In Ontario it will never change but at least we will get rid of the BITCH.. but there is still no other choices with balls.. we have a field of pussies.. We need to "drain the swamp'' it's full of GARBAGE IN ALL PARTIES IF YOU ASK ME..
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There is no elevator to success — you have to take the stairs.
Mpac was around when the pc were last in power rigging the system in the towns favour and will still be here when the liberals are gone. Ive appealed there assessments a number of times and always end up with a reduction.
They are just as bad in the city. 2 years ago, I bought a church, and 2 small houses next to it. Paid just over $200k for all. 6 months later I get a letter from MPAC stating the church alone is now appraised at $668k, because it's no longer owned by ministry. I appealed, and they dropped it, but still more than I paid for everything.
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if you don't like the way I drive, stay off the sidewalk.
i have appealed mpac now a couple of times and got reductions but it was a p.i.t.a.. on another note, i was talking to a real estate guy up here who sells mostly farms and he was saying how much an acre farmland was going for in western ontario and it was a stupid price. i know it was north of 30gs or closer to 40g per acre for farmland. wowser. but also most farmers don't mentioned that they get 75% of the money back as a tax deduction if they or another farmer uses the land for farming purposes. they base the tax's on the farm land with a separate number for the house and one acre the same as you would pay if you lived beside the farm on an acre or so. if someone has a house with 3 or 4 acres plus beside a farmer and they are not letting him farm it then they are going to pay as it will be taxed at the same rate as a house and 1 acre.
-also, growing pot is not classed as a farm crop, YET. lmao
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"if you are not the lead dog, the view is all the same"
2018 cannot come soon enough. This government needs to go and we in the rural areas need assurance that our issues will be discussed. Wynne needs to take sedatives anytime she goes north of Highway 7. Dirty uneducated deplorable people up there. Maybe we should seriously consider breaking away from Toronto. We are not represented.
X2
We've no proper representation on this side of the lake either. My neighbor has his place up right now, 100" frontage, 170" deep, 2 legal lots - one with a house that's had NOTHING done to it in 30 years, no joke. Asking price?.....this is Vineland remember not Richmans Hill..........$469,000.00. No way in H*ll it's worth over $100,000.00 but they'll get it and then there go my taxes again....jayzus
I am sitting here with a letter from MPAC.. I am afraid to open it.. It has been on my desk for a week..I would like to write NOT AT THIS ADDRESS on it and send it back..Is there ever any end to how many times they rape us ..It's like I say at election time to all those who seem unable to find the time to vote.. Just because your not interested in the government does not mean they are not interested in you !!! gasholes...
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There is no elevator to success — you have to take the stairs.
I feel your displeasure Chuck; the Town has decided to remove the sidewalk on the upper part of my street(east side) and continue down the west side to the end. So now I will have sidewalk in front of my house were I never had before . I will get a new MPAC assessment because now I have sidewalk in front of my house,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Sad, mad, all those things
We have a 'grassroots' group who stood up to the County's wait and see approach on shoreline erosion (lake Erie north shore) led by Kyle Cronk who owns land on the high bluffs west of Pt Bruce. This group has even got the backing of 2 Conservation Authorities who disagree with the County's plan of action,basically not allowing land owners to do Anything to stop erosion of their property.
When the P government downloaded all it did not want to Municapalities, the arrogance and superciliousness came along with,,,,
And the "Sunshine" group of earners
Come 2018,all these good people can't wait, get that B%^!h behind bars!
Junior
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Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is sort of an advance auction sale of stolen goods. HL Mencken. 1919.
"If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever." George Orwell 1984
I live in the heart of a farming community. We only have 2.6 acres, my neighbour has 11 acres and the rest are 100, 200 500 acre farms. We don't farm, and our taxes are $5600 a year. My neighbour does not meet the agricultural requirement either and his land earns nothing but due to history and an under the table agreement with a friend farmer, he only pays $1200 per year. If you are a legitimate working farm, you deserve the tax break granted to working farms. If you are just a piece of land, then you pay the tax rate accordingly. There are dozens if not hundreds of farms around here that are not working farms, but are still being taxed as if they were. MPAC levelled the tax playing field in the cities but have been a little slow in rural areas only changing the assessment when a property is sold. We all enjoy equal advantages or disadvantages so why shouldn't we all be taxed equally.
warren, how many farms, say 25 plus acres, around you aren't being used anymore, it's not like it use to be at least not on this side of the bridge. say 15-20 years ago driving around there would be quite a few unused parcels but not so much today and many of them are being clear cut and the fence lines taken out if it's viable land. one guy, a farmer, just bought 2 back to back farms on #62 at foxboro and clear cut over a 100 acres of swampy soft maple bush between the 2 farms and tile drained it into the moira river. i can't imagine how much that bill is, some company from the county is doing it. i know the guy and he isn't nobody's fool by any means. they milk 250 head which would be at least 350 counting the upcoming replacements. that's a lot of teats twice a day, lol. i would love to see the size of that chq every month.
that neighbor of yours is open to a big fine and back tax's due if there is ever an audit on either one of them and its caught. they, the gov, are very serious about getting their money. i had a dispute when i sold my farm in ivanhoe with them saying i hadn't farmed for the last 2 years so i wasn't entitled to the break. it went away when i got the farmer to sign the papers as he was taking the hay off and they actually owed me some, tax break, when the dust settled after i sold. if your neighbor sold tomorrow it would trigger a re-assessment and if it gets caught they can go back for some years on it. the magic number is 7000.00 that you generate either in or out for the break unless a farmer signs the papers saying he uses it as part of his operation and could have to prove where and how he is using it. sounds like your bud is taking the 75% off right across the board. the 75 is only on the farm land with the house and 1 acre being taxed separate. when i sold that farm 17yrs ago the mean value on un-drained farm land was a 1000.00 an acre. today at 35,000.00 plus an acre, probably over 40 down there, thats a lot of money bud. ouch! when i bought here 17yrs ago with 30 acres the tax bill was a little over 900.00, today there isn't much change left over from 7000.00. i am putting hay in one of my fields here with me taking what i need for a couple of donkey's and he gets the rest and the papers signed. he does the work, plowing, disking, etc and i buy the seed.
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"if you are not the lead dog, the view is all the same"
I am sitting here with a letter from MPAC.. I am afraid to open it.. It has been on my desk for a week..I would like to write NOT AT THIS ADDRESS on it and send it back..Is there ever any end to how many times they rape us ..It's like I say at election time to all those who seem unable to find the time to vote.. Just because your not interested in the government does not mean they are not interested in you !!! gasholes...
bite the bullet buddy and open it, its not going away. i was hearing some rumbling from some guys and others stayed the same. and, if you don't vote, you have nothing to say, period.
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"if you are not the lead dog, the view is all the same"
2018 cannot come soon enough. This government needs to go and we in the rural areas need assurance that our issues will be discussed. Wynne needs to take sedatives anytime she goes north of Highway 7. Dirty uneducated deplorable people up there. Maybe we should seriously consider breaking away from Toronto. We are not represented.
X2
We've no proper representation on this side of the lake either. My neighbor has his place up right now, 100" frontage, 170" deep, 2 legal lots - one with a house that's had NOTHING done to it in 30 years, no joke. Asking price?.....this is Vineland remember not Richmans Hill..........$469,000.00. No way in H*ll it's worth over $100,000.00 but they'll get it and then there go my taxes again....jayzus
yep
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"if you are not the lead dog, the view is all the same"
Shag, I concur. Fair and equal taxation for all based on land use, industrial, residential, farm etc.
Matchless, don't blame any provincial government for MPAC. They are an arms length group that bases their findings on local real estate values. If properties are selling in your neighbourhood for 500K, then that is what market value is. No government forced someone to come into your area and offer that kind of money, they did it because of supply and demand. Based on that, your property has increased in value as well. Unfortunately, you won't see that profit until you sell or your kids take the money and run.
This is a difficult situation creating hardship for some but certainly levelling the playing field as far as contributing to the overall operation of your neighbourhood.
Shag, I concur. Fair and equal taxation for all based on land use, industrial, residential, farm etc.
Matchless, don't blame any provincial government for MPAC. They are an arms length group that bases their findings on local real estate values. If properties are selling in your neighbourhood for 500K, then that is what market value is. No government forced someone to come into your area and offer that kind of money, they did it because of supply and demand. Based on that, your property has increased in value as well. Unfortunately, you won't see that profit until you sell or your kids take the money and run.
This is a difficult situation creating hardship for some but certainly levelling the playing field as far as contributing to the overall operation of your neighbourhood.
Warren
Its all good until they would have to lower your tax base . the last time I appealed mpac my closing date was the exact date that they look at to come up with a base price for housing selling in the area and would of reduced everyones tax in the area....what a S#!t show of crybabies when they have to follow there own rules.
Disagree on MPAC being arms length. The last MPAC guy who came to my place was about to retire. He retired from the Government of Ontario with full Government of Ontario Pension and Benefits. Arms length only because they do not want to have to deal with the deficient system that the Government of Ontario created.
Of course the guy from MPAC receives a G of O pension but he doesn't necessarily set the assessment. He looks at the house, figures 4 bedrooms, three baths, 4 car garage, 1 acre and looks for similar that have sold and what they sold for. Assessment is market driven and proximity to services, bus routes, feed lots, water front impact the price. As has been stated before, you can always appeal showing where they are wrong and can generally get it adjusted but not back to 1970 levels. If you don't like your assessment, sell your house for that inflated price, take the money and try to buy anything else in southern Ontario for much less. You can always compare mill rates and move to an area where they are lower or move to Tennessee. By the way, people move to Vineland for a quality of life just like they move out here. That 469K house would probably sell for over a million in Richman Hill. Supply and Demand!
Warren, you of course just pointed out the flaw in the entire system. Based on market value of similar properties in your area. So take Muskoka and specifically Muskoka lakefront property. Some of the highest valued pieces of land outside of Toronto and Ottawa. One makes the assumption that all in Muskoka are rich because they own waterfront property. That would be incorrect as they are only rich when and if the property is sold and perhaps not even then because of capital gains taxes. Some of those cottages in Muskoka have been in families for generations and in many instances the owners are not wealthy people. So when the property taxes skyrocket they are forced to sell their property because they no longer can support the local tax base because of someone else building monster cottages and flipping them.
It is a mess the Province created and we have to live with.
Warren, you of course just pointed out the flaw in the entire system. Based on market value of similar properties in your area. So take Muskoka and specifically Muskoka lakefront property. Some of the highest valued pieces of land outside of Toronto and Ottawa. One makes the assumption that all in Muskoka are rich because they own waterfront property. That would be incorrect as they are only rich when and if the property is sold and perhaps not even then because of capital gains taxes. Some of those cottages in Muskoka have been in families for generations and in many instances the owners are not wealthy people. So when the property taxes skyrocket they are forced to sell their property because they no longer can support the local tax base because of someone else building monster cottages and flipping them.
It is a mess the Province created and we have to live with.
Exactly
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Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is sort of an advance auction sale of stolen goods. HL Mencken. 1919.
"If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever." George Orwell 1984
So you want the local hospital, the roads from your house, services if you live in town, municipal services to show up if there is an emergency, parks for your kids or grandkids to play in and schools for them to attend but you want your neighbour to pay for it. Everybody pays their fair share and what percentage of the municipality you own based on assessment determines that. If you can't afford to keep up, most regions have like a reverse mortgage liened against your property that is collected at time of sale or death. I'm sure your appreciated property will well handle the bill. By the way, if you want to invest, then be prepared for the capital gains. That has nothing to do with assessment, only the difference between purchase and selling price. The province did not create rising property values, supply and demand did.
Warren, part of your statement is incorrect. Capital Gains, like so many other failed Government programs is a problem because of changing rules. At one time each spouse in a marriage could legally own a separate property. We went through this process because, while being costly to do, was completely legal.
Then they decided to change the rules and people were given a one time capital gains exemption. This of course has caused nothing but problems for people who thought they were doing the right thing, things that the Government clearly laid out.
It is like those who fell for the "Live Better Electrically" crap. Look at the mess people are in now with electric heat. Shameful. How about Aluminum Wire, hydro says that will make a huge difference, well yes it did.
Hospitals, schools, emergency services are of course important but a lot of things municipal governments spend our money are a complete waste. We look after our own road, we take our garbage to the dump ourselves, we have no street lights, sidewalks, essentially we are on our own. MPAC says my property is worth "X" what exactly are they comparing the value to? Every building here is different, property sizes vary widely.
My son built his own home and the appraiser (mortgage) valued his house at less than the cost of the materials. Part of her reasoning was there was nothing to compare the value to. Apparently nothing for the labour nor land for that matter of fact. MPAC was not so kind.
You should agree, but probably will not that the system is broken and unfair to many. That is all I have to say, we are just beating our heads against the collective wall.
a little info maybe you might or might not know. last time i appealed it was on a commercial property. you can access the tax paid by anyone around your property and it all boiled down to how much per square ft. the buying price wasn't the big factor as i had bought it from the bank on a foreclosure. in the end it boiled down to the area and what the others were paying per sq ft. my argument was they were taxing me at this amount of value but i had only paid this much. well guess what, foreclosure's or distress sales as they called it don't count as fair market value in there eye's. when i snooped the area and broke it down to sq ft numbers i was close to the top per ft. when i laid it down to them with that angle they did give me a cut but got it back in about 3-4 yrs. you can check all the numbers around you if you didn't know and if you are paying per sq ft as the guy down the road in a mansion on the water then you probably have an angle. -this one puts a bun-son burner on high about 4" below my buttocks, the education tax portion. i agree we should all pay our fair share but the system is dam near comparable to hyd 1. about 20% plus less students in some old schools comparable to a barn to maintain that are 1/2 full but with staff for a full one. at least with hyd you have a choice, use it or not. - -and my last one to help with keeping breakfast down. when these guys come up short it's the prov and the feds, you and me, who have to pony up. enjoy
-According to the most recently negotiated CUPE 79 and 416 agreements — signed off in mid-February and early March of this year — more than half of the city’s unionized workers are entitled to six months of sick leave per year.
-- Edited by shag766 on Monday 28th of November 2016 04:53:16 AM
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"if you are not the lead dog, the view is all the same"
I was just wondering what a union contract has to do with MPAC. The contract between Toronto and it's employees in times past was no different then the contracts enjoyed by workers at the auto plants or the steel mills or other large entities. Banking is a thing of the past and no new hires in the past 10 years enjoyed it. Traditionally in any industry, employees who didn't have banking pretty well ensured they took their days in a manner not requiring a doctor's certificate. Employees with banking generally in the last ten years of their employ accumulate for the big payout at retirement. My wife actually was management at the City of Toronto HR handling these claims. For 30 years she never took sick days and wasn't allowed to bank them. In her early 50s, she contracted cancer and yes did get her 35 days at full pay and LTD at 75%. Without this insurance we would have been destitute and the insurance payment during your working period is taxable. but like any other insurance payout, it is not taxable. When I worked in private industry we enjoyed the same insurance privileges. When I became self employed I either bought private insurance or had none. I am sure there are many members on here that have worked in a union shop where they got sick days and other benefits. The City of Toronto is the largest company in Ontario and are forced to release this data. I'm sure if private industry was under the same constraints, you would see the same type of figures and also, I'm sure this happens proportionally in every municipality in the country. I'm not a cheer leader for Toronto, in fact I hate the city, but let's compare apples with apples.
I was just wondering what a union contract has to do with MPAC. The contract between Toronto and it's employees in times past was no different then the contracts enjoyed by workers at the auto plants or the steel mills or other large entities. Banking is a thing of the past and no new hires in the past 10 years enjoyed it. Traditionally in any industry, employees who didn't have banking pretty well ensured they took their days in a manner not requiring a doctor's certificate. Employees with banking generally in the last ten years of their employ accumulate for the big payout at retirement. My wife actually was management at the City of Toronto HR handling these claims. For 30 years she never took sick days and wasn't allowed to bank them. In her early 50s, she contracted cancer and yes did get her 35 days at full pay and LTD at 75%. Without this insurance we would have been destitute and the insurance payment during your working period is taxable. but like any other insurance payout, it is not taxable. When I worked in private industry we enjoyed the same insurance privileges. When I became self employed I either bought private insurance or had none. I am sure there are many members on here that have worked in a union shop where they got sick days and other benefits. The City of Toronto is the largest company in Ontario and are forced to release this data. I'm sure if private industry was under the same constraints, you would see the same type of figures and also, I'm sure this happens proportionally in every municipality in the country. I'm not a cheer leader for Toronto, in fact I hate the city, but let's compare apples with apples.
Warren
you are right warren and i apologize for the side track, i went back and deleted most of it. but in a stretch it all comes back to our tax bill's. MPAC, i vaguely remember when it was created but i honestly can't remember the reason why they said we needed it but i do have a customer who worked for them in the beginning in the trenton office and i will ask his take on it. i also have a farmer neighbor down the road who's son presently works directly for them in the kingston office doing appraisals and i will corner him on the subject also just for reference sake. as for banking sick days, the teachers who are the other portion of your bill have/had been doing it for years.
my take on it, mpac is supposedly an arms length appraisal company for the gov and if it is working proper everyone on the same street should be valued comparable with in reason. there will always be some variable on the same street for the guy who puts on an addition, adds another pooper or a big shop etc who should be valued higher, fair, and the values are suppose to be determined by the market, fair again. where it probably gets out of wack is a couple of the improved homes get sold and they wrap the whole street up at their higher sales values, not fair. you, me or our neighbor can appeal the value they set due to the sales of the other improved houses and you will probably get a roll back on the value, somewhat fair but you have to ask for it as they won't offer it, but a big reason the bill goes up is the mill rates going up with it. not fair and no appeal. the 100g home 10 years ago at x mill rate is now worth 300g but the mill rate is xxx and you still don't have a sidewalk. theoretically they got a 200% raise just on the value going up, somewhat fair again. you are in a catch 22 down in your area with all the new yuppies, for a word, coming in following the wine belt and they are paying some silly prices to be there.
toronto probably is the largest company in ontario no doubt but it is publicly owned and should be an open book as should all of them.
warren, i am glad to hear your wife beat the nasty c word, good for her and you. going through that was the hardest thing i have ever done in my life but we lost. good for her warren.
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"if you are not the lead dog, the view is all the same"
