So tonight the environmental police set up just down the street from the cruise night. they took plates off two cars................
77 Camaro. looked to be big block blown, pro street................told him he had two weeks to show up with all the factory emissions parts in place...........They told him he could go back on the person who sold him the car as it is illegal to sell it with incorrect emission equipment in place,. the guy has a court date and will claim entrapment since they set up at the edge of a known show.
the other car was a mid 80's malibu...........same deal, pro street style car..........did not hear the story on this one.
they apparently can run the number on the engine and you need the factory equipment for that engine even though it is in your old car..........
more crap for people who barely drive enough to affect the environment................
They are coming, good luck with the entrapment case , MTO parks right at the gate of the dump and transfer stations
here in Mississauga , Next will be all the improperly titled 32 33 34 fiberglass cars
Was pulled over on the gardener express way last year in my steel 34 chev 5 window
cop checked the vin tag on the car and the ownership, Gave me a hard time stating the wheels weren't 34 chev or the motor Warned me to get fenders and a hood on it
or next time he seen the car I would have a handful of tickets
I did put rear fenders and a hood on the car
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It' a good thing we dont get as much goverment as we pay for !!!
Most wont challenge it. And don't have the money and resources to fight it. Sets a precedent. Each new precedent is another nail in the coffin.
I know this is a little different but,
My question is who is going to give me my money back that I spent on lets say having truck lifted or bigger after market rims/tires or just any upgrades that are not stock/came on my truck from dealer.???
It was legal to do so until recently and people were spending thousands for these mods.......
Do I take items back to the business I purchased them from lets say 2 years ago to get my money? How are those businesses even able keep their doors open now???
If they want me to start ripping sh*t off my truck that isn't stock they better have the money in there hands to give me that I put out in the first place!!!! or it aint happenin!. my only hope is we still have freedom of religion.......and I prey to mod gods.
So tonight the environmental police set up just down the street from the cruise night. they took plates off two cars................
77 Camaro. looked to be big block blown, pro street................told him he had two weeks to show up with all the factory emissions parts in place...........They told him he could go back on the person who sold him the car as it is illegal to sell it with incorrect emission equipment in place,. the guy has a court date and will claim entrapment since they set up at the edge of a known show.
the other car was a mid 80's malibu...........same deal, pro street style car..........did not hear the story on this one.
they apparently can run the number on the engine and you need the factory equipment for that engine even though it is in your old car..........
more crap for people who barely drive enough to affect the environment................
you know if they were belching the smoke out i could see it but just because, somehow don't sit right. its rare to see a environmental car around much past 4-5pm. i wonder why now and why there sorta thing.
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"if you are not the lead dog, the view is all the same"
They are coming, good luck with the entrapment case , MTO parks right at the gate of the dump and transfer stations
here in Mississauga , Next will be all the improperly titled 32 33 34 fiberglass cars
Was pulled over on the gardener express way last year in my steel 34 chev 5 window
cop checked the vin tag on the car and the ownership, Gave me a hard time stating the wheels weren't 34 chev or the motor Warned me to get fenders and a hood on it
or next time he seen the car I would have a handful of tickets
I did put rear fenders and a hood on the car
they sit at the dump around here the odd time also but police not mto. mostly insecure loads and safety issues and sometimes warrant-ted. if it is an obvious issue there won't be an entrapment defense.
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"if you are not the lead dog, the view is all the same"
Most wont challenge it. And don't have the money and resources to fight it. Sets a precedent. Each new precedent is another nail in the coffin.
I know this is a little different but,
My question is who is going to give me my money back that I spent on lets say having truck lifted or bigger after market rims/tires or just any upgrades that are not stock/came on my truck from dealer.???
It was legal to do so until recently and people were spending thousands for these mods.......
Do I take items back to the business I purchased them from lets say 2 years ago to get my money? How are those businesses even able keep their doors open now???
If they want me to start ripping sh*t off my truck that isn't stock they better have the money in there hands to give me that I put out in the first place!!!! or it aint happenin!. my only hope is we still have freedom of religion.......and I prey to mod gods.
some of these trucks can go to extreme's also janie. it's not my bag and i don't care how they spend their money as long as it is safe. i don't know how some of these trucks go around corners at speed without falling over.
this was a first, lol. sitting at a restaurant lot after lunch shooting the sh!t and a cig and out comes a good looking little itty-bitty girl and heads over to a really jacked-up truck. as if it was choreographed we all said at the same time, how the hell is she getting up there, lol. she takes her keys out and push's a button and a 2 or 3 rung ladder unfolded. then she gives a big smile as she went by us, dam near had to go back in to the bathroom from laughing so hard. lol the point being is that it only takes a small few to go to exteme's to bring heat on the rest of them. once the cat is out of the bag it is hard to put back in most times. someone is going to sell you anything your little heart desire's but it's up to you how you use it, they got their money. very similar to fuzz-busters, you could still buy them at any truck stop in ontario but you couldn't use them, here, ontario. they got your money though.
back to being a first, i always wondered how some of them get into those trucks without looking like a quadriplegic raping a football and then the ladder un-folded. makes sense in todays world. first time i seen one is all.
also, thats a good point on the precedence angle and sadly you are right.
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"if you are not the lead dog, the view is all the same"
A few years back I went to the Pink's arm drop at Cayuga. Cops and ministry setup a road block at the exit gates at the end of the event. You couldn't go home without them inspecting you. I was with a guy who was trailering his truck he was racing but I suggested maybe he should take the plates off his truck before we leave just in case. Good thing we did, they were pulling vehicles OFF trailers if they had plates on them to be inspected!
If them di^*heads are starting up in Niagara Falls now I think I have to make a decision on what to do with my Chevvy. I can,t afford to spend a fortune to install all the emission crap a 85 Corvette engine comes with . Time to decide sell the engine and put in an older 60s block or forget the V8 and go with a straight 6, OR just sell the car and be done with it. Deep thoughts.
Yes, no doubt some go to far. There is a guy with a lifted Ford around here and he isn't any taller then 5'. I laugh my ass off when I see him get out of it. But the truck looks nice.
I don't have any crazy lifts ect but was using that for an eg.
duel exhaust, K & N air filter, chrome grill guard, bushwhackers, 22w" rims and tires for eg. Not stock when truck was new.
They were all legal mods when I bought/installed. radar detector has never been legal in Ontario. If I wanted to safety my truck I would literally have to remove all that and put it back to stock. just ridiculous!!
Back in the late 80,s I had a car with lots of aftermarket chrome, driving lights, window tint, ect. Cops used to hassle me all the time and came right out and told me they wanted to charge as many as they could with infractions as they could. Eventually enough people don't fight it and a judge can then use those cases to set precedent.
I fought every one of them.
It scares me when they start stripping away our rights.
Most cops up around here are great. But apparently the paralegal in me makes me combative and argumentative If you ask constable Dix. Funny how they back down when they realised their usual tactics cant intimidate .
I agree that it's a money grab and taking these cars off the road will do absolutely nothing for the environment in the big picture. But I also think that those two cars mentioned probably had nothing to do with the engine of choice/year because those two cars if I am not totally out to lunch came from the factory with at least a cat. and some other pollution junk. That, if I am not mistaken trumps the engine code.
Pro Streets are being hit hard these days. My insurance company dropped mine this year after covering for the previous eight years. I did manage to get it insured but they would only place liability on it after much discussion. I keep better than factory emissions on it for the year of the truck and engine but I am positive the MOE would find something to pull it from the road.
It was an eye opener this year E-testing the Jeep with the Vortec engine in a new town. I usually take it to my friends shop from my hometown and have never had an issue (he always fully followed the applicable process for testing it). At this new garage they had a fit. The technician and shop owner basically said that they tested with the assumption that it had it's original engine and basically did not open the hood. If they did see the engine swap they would have to note this and submit further information such as engine mileage, proof of purchase of the engine (apparently to confirm that it was purchased legally), etc................ It past with flying colors of course (as he said, no 1988 Jeep YJ had emission levels that low out of the factory). Can't wait to see what happens on the next E-test............................... Rhys.
No matter where one looks, we're being Legislated up the *zz. Home ownership, hot-rod hobbies, farming, back yard fires, no matter the issue there's always some Gov't d*ck at the bottom of it. if it's a life and death issue - sure, wade right in but c'mon, we know 90% of the b*llsh*t laws that get rolled over us today are simply job protection.
My son has a 9500rpm rice burner - 4dr sedan crazed black paint wide steelies , he actually listened to me when building "should be seen not heard " , it's a nondescript car looks like the rest of the 500 million higher end civic's out there . He had a cop come in off the street , doing their usual song and dance and informing him of the fact this was 101 times he was investigated , of those 101 times there has been no infraction and no citation issued , they even had him towed once 20 miles to the shop of THEIR choice only to find everything was compliant and legal ( THEIR COST GARAGE INSISTED ). Only thing out of line the car is a pair of FAST Wheels window stickers . Tired of the constant harassment for the past 2 yrs he is scrapping it , it was a smart purpose-built daily driven family car with 2 baby seats strapped on board more often than not occupied , it boiled down to harassment and profiling , sorry the Fast And Furious franchise is over now , Start dealing with the squirrels that seem to affect every hobby. As enthusiasts we have always worked with ingenuity to achieve the diversity of product we drive , I'm confident we will get around these bastards . There's my rant
1) The owner of the Camaro added Cat's and a charcoal canister and went and got an E test. now awaiting court appearance to see what happens next.
2) one of the hosts of the cruise night tells me that this was an isolated incident, that they were waiting for this specific car, which had been involved in several nuisance complaints..............
They reported that the MOT had stopped by and clarified the incident to the hosts and apologized for any bad press they received. They said there is no threat to the sport and not to worry, unless you are asking for trouble..............hmmmm
So it seems there are a few versions of this going around, not sure what else to say, except that I will drive the wheels off my rides.................
I agree that it's a money grab and taking these cars off the road will do absolutely nothing for the environment in the big picture. But I also think that those two cars mentioned probably had nothing to do with the engine of choice/year because those two cars if I am not totally out to lunch came from the factory with at least a cat. and some other pollution junk. That, if I am not mistaken trumps the engine code.
Let's use a 1978 Malibu as an example.
If the Malibu now has a 1966 396 BBC in it, it will be viewed as a hot rod by the MOE because a BBC was never offered in a 1978 Malibu. Due to it being viewed as a hot rod, it is required to have the emission controls the replacement engine (again, a 1966 BBC) left the factory with in 1966. This means the owner of the Malibu CAN legally remove the cats, egr, charcoal canister etc and be PERFECTLY legal, as long as he retains the emission controls from 1966.
Unfortunately it does NOT end there. Even though he is technically legal (from an emission control component point of view), the MOE can (and in this instance, apparently have) require a car that has "hot rod" status be subjected to a tailpipe sniff test and, even though the car is technically COMPLETELY LEGAL from an emission control COMPONENT point of view it must also MEET THE STANDARDS FOR A 1980 VEHICLE.
Nice eh? You think you're legal then they drop the 1980 standards crap on ya.
Certainly gives true meaning to the term "taking it up the tailpipe".
1) The owner of the Camaro added Cat's and a charcoal canister and went and got an E test. now awaiting court appearance to see what happens next.
2) one of the hosts of the cruise night tells me that this was an isolated incident, that they were waiting for this specific car, which had been involved in several nuisance complaints.............. They reported that the MOT had stopped by and clarified the incident to the hosts and apologized for any bad press they received. They said there is no threat to the sport and not to worry, unless you are asking for trouble..............hmmmm
So it seems there are a few versions of this going around, not sure what else to say, except that I will drive the wheels off my rides.................
I am confused, you mention "MOT". Do you mean MTO or MOE?
If you meant Ministry of the Environment (MOE), then you are saying the MOE is claiming they actually got multiple "nuisance" complaints about that particular car? From who? (I don't expect you to have that answer obv). That suggests to me that members of the general public have been complaining about these "gross polluters" stinking up their Pruis driving roads and the MOE is acting on those complaints. No one complains to the MOE if they see someone spinning their tires. If that's the case, hotrodding is in BAD shape.
This kind of stuff and the stories of Belleville and Cobourg are just the tip of the iceberg if my crystal ball is telling me the truth.
I agree that it's a money grab and taking these cars off the road will do absolutely nothing for the environment in the big picture. But I also think that those two cars mentioned probably had nothing to do with the engine of choice/year because those two cars if I am not totally out to lunch came from the factory with at least a cat. and some other pollution junk. That, if I am not mistaken trumps the engine code.
Let's use a 1978 Malibu as an example.
If the Malibu now has a 1966 396 BBC in it, it will be viewed as a hot rod by the MOE because a BBC was never offered in a 1978 Malibu. Due to it being viewed as a hot rod, it is required to have the emission controls the replacement engine (again, a 1966 BBC) left the factory with in 1966. This means the owner of the Malibu CAN legally remove the cats, egr, charcoal canister etc and be PERFECTLY legal, as long as he retains the emission controls from 1966.
Unfortunately it does NOT end there. Even though he is technically legal (from an emission control component point of view), the MOE can (and in this instance, apparently have) require a car that has "hot rod" status be subjected to a tailpipe sniff test and, even though the car is technically COMPLETELY LEGAL from an emission control COMPONENT point of view it must also MEET THE STANDARDS FOR A 1980 VEHICLE.
Nice eh? You think you're legal then they drop the 1980 standards crap on ya.
Certainly gives true meaning to the term "taking it up the tailpipe".
Vehicle cannot operate if there are visible emissions for more than 15 seconds in any five-minute period (s. 3(1) and s.6) For Drive Clean testing (if applicable), the vehicle is deemed to be a 1980 model year and must meet or exceed the standards set for “1980 and earlier” model-year vehicles (s. 1(2)) Catalytic converter and emission control equipment requirements do not apply to hot rods altered prior to January 1, 1999 (s. 4(2)). However, be mindful that without emissions control equipment functioning, the vehicle could fail the Drive Clean test.
Motor replaced post January 1,1999
Requirements
Vehicle cannot legally operate if there are visible emissions for more than 15 seconds in any five-minute period (s. 3(1) and s.6) For Drive Clean testing, the vehicle must meet or exceed what were the emissions standards of the original motor when all original emission control equipment was functioning (s. 4(2)). If there weren’t any standards established for the original motor, the vehicle is deemed to be a 1980 model. The standards listed for “1980 and earlier” model-year vehicles apply. All emissions control equipment must be attached and functioning. Equipment refers to what came with the replacement motor or be equivalent to what would have come with that motor. (s. 4(2))
Regardless of the correct information, incorrect information and just plain rumours that abound regarding this topic, I suggest that anyone who unclear as to the MOE rules as they apply to their specific combination should contact the MOE directly.
Pulled this from the act. Any modified car with an engine pre-emission controls, (probably 1968 and definitely 1980 ), must meet 1980 test results even if the engine has no emission pieces. The simple answer for 1980 test results seems to be Hydrocarbons 600PPM and Carbon Monoxide 5%/vol. This is pretty easy to meet. I don't know if this applies to unmodified vehicles. I would also imagine this standard applies to any pre 1980 engine installed in a 'hot rod'.
sorry, MTO guy ..............not sure what the complaints were or who they were to, but there is more here than we can see on the surface, might be personal...................maybe the burnouts were in front of the moe guy's house :)
just ridiculous!!
If you ask constable Dix. Funny how they back down when they realised their usual tactics cant intimidate .
